U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby picknroll » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:09 pm

Thanks for the correction, billax.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby picknroll » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:39 pm

numbersman wrote:surprisingly few high schoolers in the mix for the team. Doesn't look like they will necessarily be solving the size/speed/age equation this year. :roll:


Well, no matter how much anyone tries to say different this is an NCJLA team. It was registered by the NCJLA. If they take all CIF high school players on their NCJLA team, then they look ridiculous. I would say that every HS player that is given an invitation will make the team. That's why the invitations are limited to about half of the 22 slots. The NCJLA has to leave room for actual NCJLA players on their team.

Do I think it makes sense to send a team of 9th graders to this tournament? Yes.
Do I think that the NCJLA should be involved in a team of CIF 9th graders? Simply no.

Let the NCJLA youth players have their All Star team back. Send them somewhere else to play (back to Vail even) if it makes no sense for youth players to go play in a 9th grade tournament.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby groundball » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:04 am

Now I am getting a bit confused.

The NCJLA is now not paying for a) the registration fee and b) the field space costs for try outs and c) the balls. Additionally, it is my understanding that all of the coaches, evaluators and station managers are volunteers. If that is the case, then how is this an NCJLA team at all at this juncture??

It seeems that the banter spins back and forth between this being an NCJLA team and if so then it should be made up of all NCJLA players and this not being an NCJLA team due to the ninth grade contingent. Also, in regards to the ninth graders on the list, aren't almost all of them players that came through the NCJLA system? It just appears like there is a lot of noise that has been made which has resulted in the NCJLA backing out of paying for team registration, field space fees for the try outs and other ancillary costs. Now they have done that, isn't this morphing into a private team?

Also, in reference to giving the travel team back to the NCJLA and potentially sending a team to Vail, who is going to step up and spend the countless hours organizing a try out, setting up practices, organizing travel and communicating with the teams and players? It is there to be done. There are a lot of tournaments both in our state and across the nation. All it takes is someone to step up and lead the charge. I hear a lot of noise about what should be done and what should not be done, but don't hear anyone stepping up with a viable solution or taking a leadership position and providing one.

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby PDJ » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:14 am

Calling it an NCJLA team would imply that the league is overseeing the invitation and selection process to make sure all NCJLA players have a fair opportunity to be selected.

How effectively is the league serving that role when so many of the invited players are from 1 club?
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby picknroll » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:30 am

groundball wrote:Now I am getting a bit confused.

The NCJLA is now not paying for a) the registration fee and b) the field space costs for try outs and c) the balls. Additionally, it is my understanding that all of the coaches, evaluators and station managers are volunteers. If that is the case, then how is this an NCJLA team at all at this juncture??


Go look at the NCJLA web site.

http://files.leagueathletics.com/Text/Documents/6490/16567.pdf

Here is what it says ..

Dear NCJLA Club Presidents, U13, U15 and High School coaches –
We are excited to announce the NCJLA sponsored travel team opportunities for boys for 2010.
...
This year the NCJLA is sponsoring three major programs in concert with US Lacrosse sponsored
national events:
U15 National Team – Orlando July 19th-22nd
...
U15 Festival Teams (2) – Lake George, NY – June 18th-20th 2010
U13 Festival Teams (2) – Kings Island, Ohio – June 11th-13th, 2010
...


Exactly who in the NCJLA is telling you that this is not an NCJLA team. Have you called the NCJLA? I have. I was told that the U15 National Team was initially registered as a U15 youth team (with no HS players), and it was the intent of the NCJLA to provide a youth travel team (with no HS players). After NCJLA already entered our team in the tournament US Lacrosse went back and changed the rules and allowed 9th graders. I understand that some key East Coast teams would not register for the tournament unless US Lacrosse allowed them to bring 9th graders. US Lacrosse succombed to their pressure and changed their own rules. The NCJLA then had to decide whether to stay the course and send the U15 team with 8th graders or open up the team to 9th graders. Supposedly the decision to allow CIF 9th graders on the NCJLA team was made by the NCJLA Board at their Feb meeting, although no meeting minutes are published to explain that.
groundball wrote: I hear a lot of noise about what should be done and what should not be done, but don't hear anyone stepping up with a viable solution or taking a leadership position and providing one.

Well, that would be the NCJLA Board and paid staff that is sponsoring the team. See above.

Once again I have no problem with there being a Nor Cal team of CIF 9th graders going to this tournament. My beef is with the NCJLA sponsoring such a team, which they clearly are.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby groundball » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:43 pm

Thanks Pick but still not sure I agree.

I had always thought that sponsorship involved providing some level of funding for a team which is not the case here. There is no funding for the U15 National team from the NCJLA and my understanding is that the cost for the tournament and try outs has now been thrown back to the team and try out participants to cover. I think that this occured as a by direct product of all the controversy raised over the inclusion of 9th graders.

In regards to the idea of someone stepping up with a viable solution, you seem to then throw it back at the NCJLA despite the fact that you suggested in another post that it was "time for the NCJLA to exit the travel team business". It seems as though sentiment goes back and forth between suggesting that the NCJLA exit the travel team process and suggesting that they step up and do it in a prescribed manner. Which is it???
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby 2LaxFeet » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:01 pm

Not sure the lack of funding by the NCJLA is a result of anything recent.
My son was on a U15 NCJLA Travel teams several years ago and we paid for everything. By everything, I mean balls, uniforms, gear bags, registration, air, accommodations and then of course all of the coaches expenses. The NCJLA "fronted" some initial money while team was being built, but they were reimbursed in full. And that was the only participation the NCJLA had for that team besides assigning the coaches.
The coaches handled everything themselves. By everything, I mean design & order uniforms, gear bags, t-shirts and hats, coordinate all travel, secure practice fields, setting of roster, handle all the money collections and dispersal and many many other duties and details - everything.

Looking back, it was a private travel team in all except name. :-k
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby picknroll » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:38 pm

groundball wrote:Thanks Pick but still not sure I agree.

I had always thought that sponsorship involved providing some level of funding for a team which is not the case here. There is no funding for the U15 National team from the NCJLA and my understanding is that the cost for the tournament and try outs has now been thrown back to the team and try out participants to cover. I think that this occured as a by direct product of all the controversy raised over the inclusion of 9th graders.

In regards to the idea of someone stepping up with a viable solution, you seem to then throw it back at the NCJLA despite the fact that you suggested in another post that it was "time for the NCJLA to exit the travel team business". It seems as though sentiment goes back and forth between suggesting that the NCJLA exit the travel team process and suggesting that they step up and do it in a prescribed manner. Which is it???


I believe that the NCJLA should exit travel teams completely. There should be no "sponsorship" and they shouldn't be sending out emails about the team. They shouldn't have NCJLA Board agenda items to talk about the team. The paid director of the NCJLA shouldn't be answering questions about the team and on and on. Leave the whole business to Team Talon, and Starz and all those guys. That's what the competition looks like at these tournaments anyway. The NCJLA travel team is an anomaly at these tournaments. It's basically private business. There's no reason for the NCJLA to be in the business. Maybe there was a reason 5 years ago, but it's gone now.

But if the NCJLA chooses to be in the travel team business, then they should be fielding travel teams for NCJLA players. That really seems like stating the obvious. What is the purpose of NCJLA sponsorship of a team that of players not in the NCJLA? Try to explain that. That's why there are limited HS players on this team. The NCJLA could not rationalize sending a team full of CIF HS players so they threw in a few HS guys with their NCJLA players to try to make the team more competitive. If the NCJLA was not involved at all, then there would be no such concerns. You could load up a team full of 9th graders and send them on their way to this tournament.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby crimsonlax » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:38 am

As someone who (1) has coached NCJLA teams since 2004, (2) has seen this particular group of U15 players since they entered the NCJLA as second and third graders, (3) has a child in this U15 age group (4) has coached an NCJLA “Vail” travel team, and (5) is from the east coast originally and is interested in seeing lacrosse continue its strong development in Northern California, I am not in the least bit troubled by the fact that one of the five U15 NCJLA “Norcal” teams has decided to follow the rules of the premier U15 summer tournament and allow ALL boys born in 1995 or later to be eligible to try out for the team, rather than limit it to 8th graders. This is essentially the same group of boys who were age eligible for the U13 Norcal travel teams in 2008 (when our league teams were split 5/6 and 7/8, rather than being age pure).

In my view, the NCJLA has been, for the past decade, the focal point for youth lacrosse in Northern California, and deserves much credit for the development of the sport. Whether they should “be in the travel team business” is besides the point to me--so long as the Board decides that they are “in” the travel team coordination business, they should make sure that we are fielding the most competitive teams possible. For the U15 National Championship tournament only, that means including age eligible 9th graders.

There are still plenty of U15 NCJLA “Norcal” travel teams for kids who are not selected to the National Championship team. In fact, there are 4 others according to the NCJLA website, which I believe is the most travel teams for the U15 age bracket ever assembled under the Norcal/NCJLA banner to compete at summer tournaments.

As for the assertion that they could fill the team with all 9th graders, I strongly disagree. There are certainly some 9th graders (ie, older 1995 boys) who will make the team. But there are many 8th graders who will make the team as well, no matter how many 9th graders the coaches choose to invite, because the best age-eligible players are not all 9th graders. I say this having seen nearly all of the best players in this age bracket over the past 6 years.

If my son ends up not making this team (and given the number of players trying out, that is the likely outcome), I will not feel like a 9th grader “took his spot”. Instead, I will tell him I am proud of him as a player and as my son, help him to accept the fact that, on this particular day, these coaches (who in my opinion are some of the most qualified “evaluators” Norcal lacrosse has ever had) will have judged him not to be among the best 22 age eligible players (not a bad life lesson by the way)—and tell him I will root for him enthusiastically if he is lucky enough to be selected for one of the other travel teams.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby picknroll » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:34 am

Crimsonlax, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful post.
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