U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby WestCoastLax » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:34 pm

The latest I have heard is there consideration to going to an age pure team to go to the U-15 National Championship tournament in Florida this summer. That means 9th graders, who qualify age wise as under-15 will still be eligible to be named to the team. Is there any truth to the story?

If so, I can see both sides. On one hand, you want to send the best U-15 team the NCJLA can field to the tournament, but on the other hand, it doesn't seem the right thing to do to the players competing all year in the U-15 division. Seems like these players deserve the chance to compete with other 7th and 8th graders for spots on the team.

Perhaps a solution would be to send two teams to Orlando. One 9th grade team and one younger team. Just an idea...

Curious to get some thoughts.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby picknroll » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:53 pm

The "National Championship" tournament is actually an open tournament. Anyone can enter a team. If the NCJLA enters a team it obviously should be a team of NCJLA (youth) players. There would be no point for the NCJLA to sponsor and send a team comprised of players not playing in the NCJLA. On the other hand since this is an open tournament anyone could have put together a group of CIF 9th graders to send to the tournament - outside of the sponsorship of the NCJLA. It all seems painfully obvious to me. We went through this all last year and the NCJLA Board voted to include only NCJLA players on their travel teams. To me this was stating the obvious and I'm not even sure why we needed a vote. Looks like we're back here again. Not sure why.

The whole reason that this is a problem is that US Lacrosse is breaking their own rules for this tournament and are allowing 9th graders to play U15. Maybe we should just find a different tournament for our kids since US Lacrosse can't stick to their own rules.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby picknroll » Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:53 pm

Dear NCJLA Club Presidents, U13, U15 and High School coaches –

We are excited to announce the NCJLA sponsored travel team opportunities for boys for 2010. This year we will have more teams and tournaments than ever for our players to participate in, and we strongly encourage all clubs to nominate players to participate on these teams. The overwhelming response we get from past participants is that these programs are the highlight of their lacrosse careers to date, and are a great chance to enhance their skills and meet new friends from all around the Bay Area who share their love for the game. Great coaching, great competition, and great friendships are what make the NorCal Travel team experience such a positive element of our program. We are looking for the best youth lacrosse players in Northern California to join these teams and represent our region.

This year the NCJLA is sponsoring three major programs in concert with US Lacrosse sponsored national events:

U15 National Team – Orlando July 19th-22nd

Doug Appleton and Mike Emerson are again leading a team to participate in the US Lacrosse U15 National Championships. This team will complete in the National Tournament in Orlando in mid-July. Tryouts for this team are by invitation only. You should express your interest in this team via the web site indicated below. Doug and his team will select 40 players to tryout, and select 22 for the team. This year, the U15 National team will allow 9th graders who still fit within the age-based U15 definition to participate on the team, so it will be extremely competitive.

Doug has attached a flyer describing the Orlando team in more detail.

U15 Festival Teams (2) – Lake George, NY – June 18th-20th 2010

U13 Festival Teams (2) – Kings Island, Ohio – June 11th-13th, 2010

Bill Glazier is again leading several teams to participate in the US Lacrosse Festivals in mid-June. We will select two teams (Blue and Gold) for each Festival – so 44 players from each of the age groups to participate in these very popular national celebrations of lacrosse. Tryouts for the Festival teams are open – i.e. anyone nominated by their coach can tryout.

Bill has set up a website to describe the Festival teams for 2010 in more detail.

Each of these teams is really more than just a single tournament. The NorCal Travel teams have really evolved into a year round opportunity to play lacrosse in local, regional and national tournaments at a very high level. Last year, all of the NorCal travel teams participated in additional tournaments, including the Palm Desert Lax Classic in November. We anticipate playing additional tournaments in the summer and fall.

Selection Process and Tryouts

Selection to these teams is competitive. We always get far more applications than we have spaces. That said, we strongly encourage people from new programs and players in every league (A, B1, and B2) to consider trying out. Last year we had a record number of clubs (over 25) send players on one of the travel teams. For the Festival teams in 2009, roughly ½ the players were from A level teams, and the other half were B level teams.

Tryouts begin in late March. The U15 team tryouts are on March 28th at the fields at Treasure Island. From 9AM-12PM will be the U15 National team tryouts, and from 1-5PM will be the U15 Festival team tryouts. The U13 Tryouts will be in early April at a date to be announced.

In order to be considered for any of these programs, a player must complete the following required steps:

1) Fill out the Player Registration form (this is the same form whether you are seeking to be on the U15 or U13 teams)

2) Have your coach officially nominate you and fill out a Coach Recommendation form.

3) If you are trying out for the Festival teams (U13 or U15), you must register for the tryouts at Sportability. There is a $25 fee for the tryouts to cover field expenses.

For those who apply to tryout for the U15 National team: if you are not selected to tryout (invitations to tryout will be posted on March 18th), you will have the opportunity to register and tryout for the U15 Festival teams. If you are selected to tryout and do NOT make the team, you will be eligible for the U15 Festival team if you remain interested (you do not need to stay the entire day for the Festival tryouts since Festival coaches will watch the Nation team tryouts as well).

Once you register you will receive more details about the programs and the requirements for participation. We are also aware of several tournaments and private travel teams that are forming that may also represent travel opportunities for our players, so are glad to know that more NCJLA players than ever will have the opportunity to compete this summer.

In summary, we strongly encourage Clubs to nominate players to participate on these teams. The process of trying out and getting exposure to the great talent we have here is a worthwhile reason alone to check it out. For those who are selected, it will be a first class experience.

For more questions, please get in touch with Bill Glazier at wglazier@sbcglobal.net or Doug Appleton at doug@talonlacrosse.com. The sooner players get their registrations and nominations in, the sooner we can begin to understand their capabilities and begin the challenging work of selecting the teams. Please try if at all possible to nominate all your players by March 14th.

Regards,

Blake Abbate

Boys Director, NCJLA
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby picknroll » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:24 am

Wow, no discussion here at all about the NCJLA announcement about 9th graders. That's hard to believe considering the amount of live discussions that I've had on the topic.

I'll put a few of my thoughts out.

First of all the villian in this story is US Lacrosse. They are the governing body that set the definition of U15 as no 9th graders, but then broke their own rules by redefining U15 for their own "National Championship" tournament. Why the heck would they do that? I hear that they tried to stick to their U15 definition (no 9th graders), but some big East Coast teams would not come unless they could bring 9th graders. They bowed to the pressure of these teams and broke their own US Lacrosse rules. That's where the problem started.

Then I believe that an NCJLA person was on the US Lacrosse comittee that created this "National Championship" (quotes intended). Since the NCJLA had a hand in the whole thing we then had obligation to send a team, or at least that's what we felt.

So now we're moving down a slippery slope - we need to go to the tournament, but our opponents are bringing 9th graders. We are at a competitive disadvantage if we don't also send 9th graders. The people that run lacrosse teams that travel across the country are competitive by nature so it's only natural to expect them to not want to be at a competitive disadvantage - so they lobby hard to put 9th graders on the team (and I imagine that they go looking in places like SI to find them). Now in the name of competiveness we end up with an NCJLA travel team that does not have NCJLA players. While each of the steps along the way made some sense, we somehow ended up going to the wrong place! I can't imagine that anyone would intentionally create an NCJLA travel team without NCJLA players! It's just a product of some weird circomstances.

Under the current setup for the "National Championship" tournament, I think that tournament is the wrong venue for our NCJLA youth travel team. We really don't have to send our boys to that tournament. There's plenty of other tournaments. There's really nothing magical about this "National Championship". I put the quotes there because this is really just an open tournament. It's first come, first serve. Anyone that signs up a team can go. I could have taken my own U15 team. I am not really the expert on East Coast tournaments, but I think that there are a lot of other venues. We're just there because we had a guy on the comittee and now feel obligated to go.

Now with all that being said, any of the private Nor Cal teams (Starz, Grizzlies, Team Talon, etc.) could have put together a team for this tournament. Such a team would have been able to put together a roster of CIF 9th graders without all of the conflict of interest of NCJLA sponsorship. I really see what the organizers of this U15 National team are trying to do for competiveness, but the NCJLA sponsorship of the team makes for a sticky situation where many NCJLA families are crying foul for losing available slots on the premier NCJLA travel team.

My opinion all along is that NCJLA Travel teams should contain NCJLA players. This really seems like stating the obvious to me. I think 9th graders should be going on a seperate team outside of NCJLA sponsorship - if they go at all.

As a side note I am not even sure that the NCJLA intended to include CIF High School players on the team. They may have intended the announcement to mean only NCJLA club high school players. The announcement was open ended and I've heard different interpretations by different people in the NCJLA.

Just my $0.02 (for what it is worth).
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby WestCoastLax » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:41 am

An interesting situation which may set a dangerous precedent. My understanding is if CIF players participate in the tryouts or any practices before their high school season is over, then they risk their high school eligibility. That would make things very interesting indeed and is probably the first question which needs to be addressed.

I feel there should be two teams from NorCal heading to this tournament. One for 9th graders who are still age eligible and one for NCJLA players. Seems like all the bases would be covered and more kids would be exposed to the tournament. The NCJLA players would then have a year of experience at this level if they went back next year.

With tryouts two weeks away, it seems like a decision should be reached pretty soon and clearly explained to all.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby WestCoastLax » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:47 am

I guess there's one other question to be asked. Are the 9th grade players, who are playing high school lacrosse, NCJLA players this season? If they are not, why are they being allowed to try out for an NCJLA team? Also, I am curious about the following situation and have no idea what the correct answer is.

Say a player from an NCJLA club - Scorpions, Firehawks, Pleasanton, etc., is in 9th grade and chooses not to play high school lacrosse (for whatever reason). Are they eligible to play for their club U-15 team or not? Not sure why they wouldn't play high school, but if they are not eligible to play with the middle school kids, how are they now eligible to play for an NCJLA team?

If you've got the answers, please let me know.

Thank you.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby picknroll » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:47 am

The US Lacrosse rules prohibit an age-eligible 9th grader from playing on U15 teams, even if they are not playing high school lacrosse. Those players could go play for an NCJLA HS club team, but not for a U15 youth team. For example a former Scorpion player that attends Monte Vista but does not play lacrosse there could not play for U15 Scorpions, but could go play for the Skyline HS club team.

That's the normal defintition of U15. For this "National Championship" tournament US Lacrosse broke thier own rules and removed the prohibition of 9th graders.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby picknroll » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:53 am

WestCoastLax wrote:An interesting situation which may set a dangerous precedent. My understanding is if CIF players participate in the tryouts or any practices before their high school season is over, then they risk their high school eligibility. That would make things very interesting indeed and is probably the first question which needs to be addressed.


There's a loophole in the CIF outside competition rules. See exception A below:

A student on a high school team becomes ineligible if the student competes in a contest on an “outside” team,
in the same sport, during the student’s high school season of sport (See Bylaw 511). The following
exceptions apply:
A. If the outside team has half or more of the team members as stated in the National Federation rules
book for that sport, it shall be considered the same sport. Examples: three on three basketball —
outside team competition prohibited; two on two volleyball—outside team competition permitted.


Maybe the NCJLA believes that HS CIF players can participate in the try outs as long as the try out is limited to 4v4 or less in drills.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby picknroll » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:55 am

WestCoastLax wrote:I feel there should be two teams from NorCal heading to this tournament. One for 9th graders who are still age eligible and one for NCJLA players. Seems like all the bases would be covered and more kids would be exposed to the tournament. The NCJLA players would then have a year of experience at this level if they went back next year.


The tournament is full and there's only one slot for Nor Cal. Two teams is not an option.
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Re: U-15 NORCAL TRYOUTS

Postby piranha18 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:16 pm

There is misinformation in these posts.

The NCJLA is aware of the CIF rules, and has discussed and cleared the process with the CIF. There is no violation.

According to the CIF commissioners for both the North Coast and Central Coast, under Rule 600 (Competing Team), so long as (1) the tryouts do not involve playing against another team, and (2) the final selected team does not play against other teams during the season then you are well within the rules. NorCal girls lacrosse all star teams have for several years been able to hold tryouts and form all star travel teams that include a mix of CIF and NCJLA players, which has been permitted by the CIF.

The CIF commissioners stated without hesitation that the national team is not a “competing team”, as it will not compete against other teams during the CIF season. In fact, the national team will not begin practices until the NCJLA and CIF seasons are over. Note however that under the CIF rules the team could practice during the season if they wanted to without violating the rules.

Nor is this a high school all star team under Rule 900. According to the CIF commissioner, that rule is intended for high school all star teams within a league or division that may compete in a post season all star game. That isn’t the case here.
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