Game film study for high school lacrosse?

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Game film study for high school lacrosse?

Postby yudong » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:51 pm

Game film study is a proven, effective coaching tool. College and professional teams routinely video taping their games and study the footage for training and scouting purposes.

Camcorders are pretty affordable. You see parents video taping games on the stands all time. My questions to coaches are:

Is game film study valuable for lacrosse players at high school level?

If it's valuable, are teams at high school level studying game film regularly?

If you do, do you use any software to facilitate the study?

If you don't, what are the obstacles that prevent youth teams from studying game film regularly?

Any opinions, thoughts, ideas and tips on game film study at high school level?

Thanks.
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Re: Game film study for high school lacrosse?

Postby CVHSJVCoach » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:58 pm

I think game film study is a great tool for coaching lacrosse! Although you do have to be careful that it doesn't sometimes become the "watch this great shot I made here" session. If you pick the moments in the video(s) that you want to use as learning tools for the the team, it can be invaluable.

However, I do want to point out that despite the fact that some teams are specifically know for doing so.....advance video scouting of a future opponent is STRICTLY forbidden by the rules. It's kinda along the same premise of Bill Belick (sp?) from the Patriots videoing the coaches on the sidelines singnaling in the plays. I have no use for this kind of cheater myself...
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Re: Game film study for high school lacrosse?

Postby Grizz » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:06 pm

CVHSJVCoach wrote: . . . advance video scouting of a future opponent is STRICTLY forbidden by the rules.


What rule it this against? I know that the schools in the Marine league have a rule against scout filming at one of their schools unless you a participating team, but I know of no other rules. Please advise because I have heard of about 20 schools that do this (just hearsay, you know :twisted: ).
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Re: Game film study for high school lacrosse?

Postby backdoor » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:11 pm

I agree, it's a great tool. Unfortunately, I don't get to use it much. For me, my problems are:
1. the availability of quality video
2. getting it in a timely manner
3. assembling a club high school team made up of players from several high school in a place where we can watch it

It seems less appropriate the younger the players are.
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Re: Game film study for high school lacrosse?

Postby CVHSJVCoach » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:14 pm

I'd have to look it up Grizz...but it's mentioned in the National High School Rule book.... I only know it 'cause I've read it myself. And yes, there are a few schools that are known for doing it, I've even witnessed it myself with a player in his own team jersey filming a game at our stadium just prior to us playing them (won't mention any names...I don't like to do that...)

However, the rules don not say anything about reviewing games you played against an opponent from the previous year... so I don't think that would qualify as advance scouting....
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Re: Game film study for high school lacrosse?

Postby Billax » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:06 pm

CVHSJVCoach wrote:I'd have to look it up Grizz...but it's mentioned in the National High School Rule book.... I only know it 'cause I've read it myself.

CVHSJVCoach,
The only reference I can find to video in the 2009 NFHS Boys Lacrosse Rules Book is Section 10, which covers "Prohibited Equipment and Related Items." Article 2 of Section 10 reads, "Electronic communication equipment, other than an audio tape recorder, including but not limited to computer, film, television and videotape, or a type of still or moving pictures, shall not be used for coaching purposes, during the game or between periods. Phones and headsets may be used by coaches and other non-players, but not by players.

I have underlined the relevant comment, which limits such media to use after games. Perhaps this is the section you recall reading? I can find no other reference to video anywhere in the Rules Book.

As I read it, the NFHS is silent on the issue of video scouting of opponents. Am I wrong?
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Re: Game film study for high school lacrosse?

Postby Grizz » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:36 pm

Over twenty years ago, for a period of four years, I checked the CIF and NCS Rules for any prohibition against scout filming another team and there were none. Then, about seven years ago, for a period of six years, I again check the CIF and NCS Rules and there was no prohibition. If there is now a rule against scout filming, I am sure numerous coaches would like to know the section number of which rule book it is in, so as not to be in violation.

Bill Belichick was filming the signals of the other team during the game, which was cheating. The NFL supplies teams with game films of other teams for scouting purposes. Within the rules, high school teams (football, basketball, lacrosse, or whatever) filming a team that you will be playing is not anything remotely similar to what Belichic was doing, it is good game preparationand, not cheating.
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Re: Game film study for high school lacrosse?

Postby CVHSJVCoach » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:27 am

Billax wrote: As I read it, the NFHS is silent on the issue of video scouting of opponents. Am I wrong?


Sorry for taking a little bit longer to reply on this, I broke my tibia and my fibula (spiral fracture) in my right leg a little over three weeks ago now, have had two surgeries on it, and its still a little hard getting around on the crutches. So I didn't have a chance to find my rule book from last year until I was able to get my son to dig it out for me this morning...

Ok, as much as I hate to admit it (my wife says I never do).... you guys have "sort of" got me....

Billax, if you go to the back of the 2009 NFHS rule book, about the third page from the back of the book, there is a "Coaches Code of Ethics". The last line of that code of ethics reads "The coach shall not scout opponents by any means other then those adopted by the league and/or state high school athletic association."

I believe that line is actually changed from even just last years (2008) NFHS rule book where it specifically mentioned video scouting. That's where I remember reading it in the past. I do know that it was in the 2007 NFHS rule book there because that was my first year coaching the CV JV and was the first lacrosse rule book I had the "pleasure" of reading cover to cover. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find those two older rule books to confirm this... knowing me, I likely have them around somewhere... just don't want to make the effort right now to figure out where they are. Maybe somebody else has them...

So Grizz .... is it a specific rule and section per se... no ... and I'm not sure even in the past rule books that I remember "video scouting" specifically being mentioned in, how enforcable it would be. Based on how it's written as I've quoted above, I guess it would be up to NCS and CIF and the rules of whatever local league your team is in to determine wether or not it's allowed for your own team....

Does this clear things up any... or only muddy the waters further??? 8-[
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Re: Game film study for high school lacrosse?

Postby gamecocks » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:20 pm

Muddied the waters.

I have had numerous teams scout us with video. Have even had them tell me about it after the game. To be honest, I dont have a problem with it, as long as I am allowed to do the same.
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Re: Game film study for high school lacrosse?

Postby Billax » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:24 pm

Perhaps it would be useful to our original poster, yudong if we moved from the "scouting" aspect of game tapes to the "instructional" value of game tapes. yudong wondered:
• Is game film study valuable for lacrosse players at high school level?
• If it's valuable, are teams at high school level studying game film regularly?
• If you do, do you use any software to facilitate the study?
• If you don't, what are the obstacles that prevent youth teams from studying game film regularly?


I'm nowhere near expert in this topic, but after watching more than my share of NorCal HS Lacrosse over the years, I've concluded that:
• more goals are scored on defensive lapses than on heroic individual effort
• well coordinated defenses frustrate very good offenses, but well coordinated defenses are uncommon
• players don't realize the systematic mistakes they are making until they see themselves making the same mistake over and over
• more defensive lapses go unexploited than get exploited

For these reasons, I'd think that game reviews on tape would be extremely valuable to NorCal HS teams. I know that many teams tape their games. What I don't know is how often those tapes are reviewed and annotated by coaches, and then reviewed with players. Given the comments so far, I'm guessing that film review with the team is quite uncommon. Am I wrong?
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