Referees: You Make the Call

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Referees: You Make the Call

Postby picknroll » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:18 am

I know ref training is in progress right now. Here's a pre-season warmup for all you refs (experienced or new). Make the call on this situation.

1. X attack throws an errant pass to the wing attack.
2. The wing attack runs the ball down with a long pole defender chasing behind.
3. The attack picks up the ground ball right on the sideline with his back to the defender.
4. The approaching long pole extends out his stick and pushes the offensive player out of bounds using the head of his stick.

Who gets possession?
Was a penalty committed?

That's a real-life situation that I saw a couple of years back. I have my opinion on what the call should be, but not being a trained ref I am unsure. I'd be interested in hearing from the experts.
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Re: Referees: You Make the Call

Postby DlaxDad » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:09 pm

All penalties against defensemen have been assessed in error. If the ball's still on the ground after the incidental contact the blameless defender may pick it up and advance it.

Some people might throw a flag for a push from behind with possession, but not me . . . .
:lol:

So sayeth the parent of a defenseman . . . .
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
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Re: Referees: You Make the Call

Postby picknroll » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:46 pm

Does the fact that the defender pushed the offensive player with his stick (instead of his gloved hands) change the call?

Since the defender is using his stick to make contact with the offensive players body (to push him) is this a slash?

Or was it just a good play by the defender and a no call?

Dlaxdad must have been calling the game that I watched because there was no call and the D guy got the possession :) At a minimum it seems like a loose ball push should have been called and the O guy should have kept possession. Beyond that it seems like a push with possession (30 sec) could have been called. Or even a slash (1 min). Pushing someone with your stick was the fuzzy part to me. I wasn't sure if that was considered a slash. It seems that refs never call slashes for poke checks, but this was a blatant poke check right between the shoulder blades. It's kind of hard to argue that he D guy was aiming for the gloves, unless he was going to poke straight through the O guys rib cage to get there. On second thought I'm sure some D guys would even make that argument :)
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Re: Referees: You Make the Call

Postby Billax » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 pm

Interesting question, pick. I, too, would like to hear from one of our striped brethren on this. I can see any of your possibilities. Lots of loose ball pushes are called when the offended player does have possession. Generally, I've come to think of these as the ref making a judgement call as to severity of the push. In the case you describe, a similar judgement could be made. Namely, how severe was the poke check? Just a little extension of the crosse to push the guy out? Either a loose ball push (with possession to the offense) or a push with possession (with the penalty). If the poke check is powerful, then I think Rule 5 Article 6 Situation E in the 2011 NFHS Rules Book would apply. Situation E uses the phrase "swings his stick," which isn't exactly a poke check, but they call it a slash resulting from "an illegal back check."

I love these "You make the call" questions - and I always hope that a ref will weigh in and help us acquire a better understanding.
Sports don't build character, they reveal it. - Heywood Broun
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Re: Referees: You Make the Call

Postby laxref94598 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:31 pm

Where was the push, in the back, on the side?

If the push was in the back after the ball was picked up, it is flag down, 30 second penalty for push in the back

if the push was before possession, it is a loose ball push and the attack guy gets the ball.

if the push is deemed on the side, legal play
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Re: Referees: You Make the Call

Postby Billax » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:46 pm

In picknroll's first post, he wrote. "The attack picks up the ground ball right on the sideline with his back to the defender" and in his second post he wrote"...this was a blatant poke check right between the shoulder blades." So, if I'm reading pick correctly, the Attack has possession near the sideline with his back turned to the defender, who poke checks him out of bounds.
Sports don't build character, they reveal it. - Heywood Broun
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Re: Referees: You Make the Call

Postby laxref94598 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:53 pm

if it was a blatent poke check, we could call unnecessary roughness, or a slash. Very open to a judgement call. Could be legal also. the rule book state a slash is a STRIKE OR A BLOW and/or swinging a crosse at an opponents crosse or body with deliberate vicsiousness or reckless abandon. So it is open to interpretation and the level of play (jr, HS, or College), but good chance if seen as described a flag would or could be thrown. hope this helps
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Re: Referees: You Make the Call

Postby Billax » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:54 pm

Thank you, Sir!
Sports don't build character, they reveal it. - Heywood Broun
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Re: Referees: You Make the Call

Postby laxref94598 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:00 am

Sir, hope when coaches and fans yell at the field this year, SIR is in their vocabulary! Looking forward to a great season! Already started our ref training for new officials!
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Re: Referees: You Make the Call

Postby picknroll » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:05 am

Thanks laxref! Two of my boys are in one of those ref training sessions tomorrow. They might get a surprise if someone calls them "sir" this season :)
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