Question on CIF "Outside Competition" Rules

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Question on CIF "Outside Competition" Rules

Postby picknroll » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:38 am

I know that CIF has "outside competition" rules:

http://www.cifstate.org/governance/constitution_bylaws/pdf/600%20Series.PDF

COMPETITION ON AN OUTSIDE TEAM
A student on a high school team becomes ineligible if the student competes in a contest on an “outside” team,
in the same sport, during the student’s high school season of sport (See Bylaw 511).

...

601. PENALTIES FOR VIOLATION OF BYLAW600
A. Individual
(1) First Offense in High School Career in Any Sport
The student becomes immediately ineligible for participation with his/her high school
team for a number of contests equal to twice the number of contests of outside competition in which
the student participated.
(2) Any Subsequent Offense in High School Career in Any Sport
The student becomes immediately ineligible for one year (365 days) from the second
infraction in all sports.


Is participation in a tryout for a summer travel team during the CIF lacrosse season considered competing on an "outside team"?
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Re: Question on CIF "Outiside Competition" Rules

Postby Billax » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:20 am

If you are referring to the following sentences - 'Tryouts begin in late March. The U15 team tryouts are on March 28th at the fields at Treasure Island," - then, yes, it would be a violation of CIF rules for a lacrosse player on a High School team, operating under CIF rules, to participate in tryouts for the U15 National team. On the other hand, if the High School lacrosse player participates on a club team instead of his High School team, he would be free to try out.

This rule is precisely why camps like California Gold hold tryouts before the "season of sport."
Sports don't build character, they reveal it. - Heywood Broun
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Re: Question on CIF "Outiside Competition" Rules

Postby picknroll » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:34 am

Thanks for clarifying. That was exactly my question.
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Re: Question on CIF "Outside Competition" Rules

Postby picknroll » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:45 pm

I think CIF Article 90 on All Star Competition is also relevant:

http://www.cifstate.org/governance/constitution_bylaws/pdf/900%20Series.PDF

ARTICLE 90
ALL-STAR COMPETITION
900. PARTICIPATION
A. A graduating senior is any student who has started his/her seventh semester of eligibility and has
completed the season of sport prior to the high school all-star competition in that sport.
B. For graduating seniors only, high school all-star competition (including practices and/or tryouts)
may not begin until the conclusion of the last Section or State contest in that sport.
C. Undergraduates (grades 9-11) are prohibited from participating in high school all-star competition
(including
practices and/or tryouts) from September 1 through the completion of the last CIF-scheduled
sanctioned event for that school year.
NOTE: 2010 June 8
2011 June 7
D. For purposes of interpreting the CIF All-Star bylaw, high school all-star competition in any game,
contest, or exhibition (including practices and/or tryouts) in which teams compete and the team
participants include students from CIF-member schools selected on a basis that involves, but may
not necessarily be limited to, their high school athletic accomplishments. The following guidelines
are to be considered in determining whether the activity is high school all-star competition:
(1) If the team name or activity includes “all-star” in its title, it shall be considered “all-star”
competition unless it qualifies otherwise by these guidelines;
(2) If a team includes high school participants and the team purports to represent outstanding
players from any community, county, State or geographical region, it shall be considered
“all-star” competition unless it qualifies otherwise by these guidelines;
(3) If a team includes high school participants and the team represents itself in name,
publicity, or programs as being composed of outstanding players from two or more high
schools, or from one or more CIF leagues, or from one or more Sections, it shall be
considered “all-star” competition unless it qualifies otherwise by these guidelines;
(4) If no admission charge is made nor donation solicited for the activity, it shall not be
considered “all-star” competition;
(5) If the team(s) represents an organized sports association, religious organization, or
municipal recreation department and the team(s) is comprised solely of current
participants in ongoing leagues or divisions of that organization, it shall not be considered
“all-star” competition;
(6) If the team(s) is comprised solely of current members of an incorporated athletic club, it
shall not be considered “all-star” competition.
(Revised May 2003 Federated Council)
901. PENALTIES FOR VIOLATIONS OF BYLAW900
A. School
Violations of Bylaw 900 may cause the school involved to be suspended from membership in the
CIF.
Participation bymember schools, by their school officials, or by any employee of the school,
directly or indirectly, in the furnishing of school facilities or equipment, management, organization,
supervision, player selection, coaching, or promotion in connection with any prohibited contests
shall be considered a violation of Bylaw 900. The period of suspension shall be determined by the
Federated Council. Suspended schools shall apply to the Federated Council for reinstatement.
B. Student
Any student taking part in a prohibited all-star contest or similar contest shall be barred from all
CIF athletic
contests for up to one year following the date the infraction is verified.
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Re: Question on CIF "Outside Competition" Rules

Postby SkylineCoach » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:52 pm

So by 900.D.(4) if the NCJLA dropped the $20 per player "field charge" it would be fine? That seems easy enough. Their reserve fund is over $200K and fields cost $65 per hour... seems an easy fix to preserve the eligibility of all those 9th graders they want to stack the travel teams with.
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Re: Question on CIF "Outside Competition" Rules

Postby picknroll » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:36 pm

Well, I think that they would also have to drop the $1800 fee to play on the team once you make it.
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Re: Question on CIF "Outside Competition" Rules

Postby SkylineCoach » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:41 am

But that fee (and all the practices & games) can take place after the normal season is over... summer & fall tournaments, right?
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Re: Question on CIF "Outside Competition" Rules

Postby picknroll » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:05 pm

It sounds like main concern for CIF players is the "Outside Competition" rules instead of the All Star rules. Not sure why. See post in youth forum.
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Re: Question on CIF "Outside Competition" Rules

Postby piranha18 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:06 pm

The NCJLA is aware of the CIF rules, and has discussed and cleared the process with the CIF. There is no violation.

According to the CIF commissioners for both the North Coast and Central Coast, under Rule 600 (Competing Team), so long as (1) the tryouts do not involve playing against another team, and (2) the final selected team does not play against other teams during the season then you are well within the rules. NorCal girls lacrosse all star teams have for several years been able to hold tryouts and form all star travel teams that include a mix of CIF and NCJLA players, which has been permitted by the CIF.

The CIF commissioners stated without hesitation that the national team is not a “competing team”, as it will not compete against other teams during the CIF season. In fact, the national team will not begin practices until the NCJLA and CIF seasons are over. Note however that under the CIF rules the team could practice during the season if they wanted to without violating the rules.

It is also worth mentioning that there are rules regarding All Star Competition (Rule 900). In sum, the rule provides:

“Undergraduates (grades 9-11) are prohibited from participating in high school all-star competition (including practices and/or tryouts) from September 1 through the completion of the last CIF-scheduled sanctioned event for that school year.”

According to the CIF commissioner, the national team is not a “high school all star” team under their rules. That rule is intended for high school all star teams within a league or division that may compete in a post season all star game. That isn’t the case here.
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Re: Question on CIF "Outside Competition" Rules

Postby picknroll » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:22 pm

Thanks for the information! I contacted the NCJLA yesterday and asked if their tryout had been cleared by CIF. The response that I received was that it was the responsibility of the player to determine if they were in compliance of CIF rules. I think that the NCJLA and CIF need to be coordinating on this to avoid getting anyone in trouble.
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